Flounder REMINDER !!!!

[Muddskipper]

Just a quick reminder....

The limit for Flounder is 2 per angler, per day, for the month of November, for rod & reel anglers.

Gigging is not allowed for only this month to give the fish a better chance to populate offshore.

I know this is somewhat controversial .... but please understand ... .this is a good thing for the resource, and much better than other options/ restrictions that were on the board.

And if any rod and reel angler wants to become a flounder hero, if you release an over 20" flounder.... send the pics to the flounder-revolution website to enter to win a replica.

That fish has the genetics to pass along to 100's potential flounder just next year.

[WestEndAngler]

I beat you to it Bryan!

[Robalo]

Thanks MS and Coe.

[2112]

Just a quick reminder....

The limit for Flounder is 2 per angler, per day, for the month of November, for rod & reel anglers.

Gigging is not allowed for only this month to give the fish a better chance to populate offshore.

I know this is somewhat controversial .... but please understand ... .this is a good thing for the resource, and much better than other options/ restrictions that were on the board.

I realize you didn't make the new laws but I openly challenge this to debate among us.

Who here can tell me what dang difference it makes how the fish are harvested as long as it's legal?

The alternative...I say shut down the whole season, I can't gig and you can't fish, there, that suddenly doesn't taste so good in your mouth does it.

I look forward to your arguments, I'm ready.

[Muddskipper]

Frankly, the debate is over scine the law/ regulations have already been changed.

I attended and spoke at every TPWD scoping meeting in Dickinson. This change has affected the fewest anglers.

Your argument of, "I say shut down the whole season, I can't gig and you can't fish" carries very little back bone, and it should be noted, that the next move might be out law all types of gigging until the population recovers, or for good.

I have always felt that recreational gigging is a Texas tradtion that should continue, but with the amount of people increasing that are doing it, it will only hurt the populations further.

I look forward to you doing more for the flounder than debating it on a public forum, since it is a passion of yours. Sea Center is always looking for volunteers in Lake Jackson.

Bryan

[sawdust]

if they close for one they should close it for all,one's no better better than than the other. I done and enjoy both.

[2112]

First let it be known that I have made a mistake in that after re-reading my post it looks like it is directed to Mudskipper. I apologize for that, Bryan.

It intended for it to be directed to the group as a whole. But Bryan, this is directed to you.
What I said has serious "Back Bone" and merit.

I to spoke at the one and only scope meeting in my area at the Dickinson Marine Lab and walked away feeling that my opinion was only tolerated and the governing body had already made up it's mind what they where going to do before the meeting even began...This is just my opinion.

To only outlaw the gig is nothing short of a Witch Hunt as they grasp for straws that only Mother Nature can ultimately provide an answer to.

No one here is stupid or ignorant and it's not to hard to figure out on any given day more flounder are taken by pole than gig due to off setting ratio of pole and gig. And I would even go so far as to say there are not very many gigs working on a cold winter night any way because it's miserably cold to gig on a winter night. Figure in trying to get a night of calm winds in November and the number of gigs drops even less.

With that thought in mind can anyone give me a logical reason why the gig is outlawed through the month of November other than it's a paranoid Witch Hunt.

Bryan.
I have previously stated in one of your other threads that when the time is right for me that I will help. I would even be proud to slap one of those "Specimen Collector" permit sticker's on the side of my boat like Wayne Piaggio has on his.
On nights I can actually see the bottom I pass up 10 and 12 inch males by the dozen and understand this is what the Sea Center would prefer.

With respect to Bryan and the rest of you guys, I look forward to this open debate.

[mkk]

Good points, my biggest concern with the November shutdown of the gig is that once its in place it is here to stay. Whats next?

I wish they would just say 2 flounder/person in November. Rod or gig. I would go out for 2 fish, It's quality time with freinds and family.

I'm OK with the shutdown if it will benefit the population. The gig has a bad rap that is deserved.....you all know of someone, in years past that would go out and get 10 before midnight and then 10 after midnight on a routine basis. Thats alot of fish. This has given the gig it's bad rap.

We keep some fish, but we don't rape the bay as some people think.

Bryan, Ive contacted you via PM and got the info on the trailer at Lutes. I work shift work and only have 2 weekends off a month and most of the time I stay away from the bay on the weekends anyway. Who do I need to get in touch with at Sea Center to donate fish, what is the criteria?

I'm sticking my hand out, I'll help. Just would be hard to do on the weekends

Mike

[Muddskipper]

Commercial season is not closed in Novmber, they can still catch 2 by rod and reel .... There was some thought that you can catch and release flounder by hook ..... and as most of the seasonal giggers know how to judge most new novice do not.

It would be easier to manage November by if you see some lights on the bay in Nov. it would be illegal. There is not enough law enforcement, and not enough money for additional.

There are very few species in the water that you can go and gig during their annual migration to breeding. If this were a bass, or spec. people would be up in arms.

With so few days being able to gig in November I am not sure why upper coast anglers have an issue with this.

The no gigging really affects the middle coast where they can gig even when the wind blows in the 20's .... and where the majority of flounder are gigged.

My fear is that the commisison will just say screw it, no more gigging period! I do not want to see that. There were very few if any giggers that were in favor of any kind of gigging clouser.

Keep in mind half of the annual harvest of flounder is taken by gig in Texas. Both commercial and Rec. Look at the numbers of people who gig ..... and that is very small compared to rod & reel.

So it's allocating flounder to more of the population in Nov and affecting less.

It will take 6 years to see how it works.
Conservation, education, non-controllable factors will be the key.

Sea Center for now can only accept fish thru an event where there is staff on hand to collect fish. They do not have the man power for fisherman to drive up to the Sea Center.

They are always looking for volunteers at the facilty .... so that is a good way to help as well.

[2112]

Keep in mind half of the annual harvest of flounder is taken by gig in Texas. Both commercial and Rec. Look at the numbers of people who gig ..... and that is very small compared to rod & reel.

I have a hard time believing this. On most nights mine is the only boat working SLP and perhaps one or two groups working the area on foot but by day there will be 30 boats and 100 people fishing the shores. Based on a educated guess all these fishermen who are either targeting flounder or who catch them by accident, there total take would out number by a large margin the total take of 6 giggers in that 24 hr period in a given area.
I can't count how many times I've come back defeated because of blown out conditions in our naturally turbid waters.
Maybe I'm being defensive. I am being defensive because I just don't see how a handful of giggers have depleted the resource especially when taken to account of how many nights are conductive to good gigging.
I think people think a bunch of giggers are out every night taking limits when the fact is less than half of the nights are favorable for gigging. Remember my saying, " One cannot gig what one cannot see.
Maybe the shrimpers easily catch a limit but from the by out program there numbers are being kept in check.

It has been argued no gigs in November because big girls are going to be spared. But the only month I have ever seen a bed guesstimated at 27 inches or bigger is the month of December.
I still feel I am not the problem and my point at the scope was this; " if there is a problem then shut down the 3 winter run months to all methods of harvest". Alot of people didn't like my idea because now they can't harvest there precious fish and the majority rules yet at the same time I can't harvest and am expected to sit idly by and accept the witch hunt.

Here is another argument. In any month the fish I take are selective. In November I can still be selective. Mean while. The thousands of angelers are doing the 10 count and having no clue on what the size of the gut swallowed flounder is. It could be a undersize fish or one that is barley legal so these fish are released mortally wounded or put on a stringer and held until a larger fish comes along and the culled fish is released in bad shape because with a 2 fish limit, most every angeler wants 2 doormats.

I know my argument will get me no where as the law has been instated.
I just hope my point of view will be realized as rational and probable among us.
In short. There are not enough of us giggers to do the damage TP&W claims.
And I'm still not positive the flounder fishery is in dire straights because on the nights that I can see the bottom, I see a whole lot of Flounder. Also on these good nights , flounder are not every where. They truly concentrate on cuts, drains, drop offs and structure and if the average fisherman does not grasp this one simple fact he will never catch a fish nevermind a limit.
I hear about this all the time from fisherman and imeadiatly think to myself that they do not know where to target the fish.

[2112]

Qoute; "With so few days being able to gig in November I am not sure why upper coast anglers have an issue with this." End qoute.

Upset because of this very fact, then why ban the gig.
Upset because this is like feeding a elephant a single peanut.
Upset because the gig is being made the escape goat.
Upset because this illustrates a lack of knowledge.
Upset because I know this can lead to more bans of gigging.


Here is another idea.
If TP&W is afraid of the gig selecting only large specimens then put a slot size limit on gigged flounder but don't ban the gig altogether.
What if the rod and reel was banned but not the gig, then how would y'all feel. Well that is exactly what I'm feeling from this side of the fence.

If it's really as bad as the say then do something about it that is for real.
I still say shut down the entire fishery for the fall and spring migrations.
I would happily accept this in that we all sacrifice as one instead of sacrificing just one that
Has the least effect on the fishery to start with.

[mkk]

I am curious to see what data was used to make the decision to ban the gig for November? I've never been contacted to participate in a flounder harvest survey. Where did the #'s come from that were used? What percentage of flounder are taken with gig vs. rod?..........Or is it a witch hunt as 2112 suggested.

I'm into conservation, but lets do it with a mission, stradegy and facts....not a shotgun blast

[Muddskipper]

There is a bigger picture to it .... and with everything I say here, there is a debate to it.

FACT
There is 30 years of scientific data to back up their decisions.

Alot of your argument is based on you and what you do, and see .... and there is more to it than that.

Like I said, I'm not against gigging .... and frankly, if it was just the recreational sector harvesting it would be different ... but it's not, and the majority of commercial flounder are gigged .... so unfortunitly your passion is tied to the commercial sector.

[mkk]

OK.......What % of the flounder harvest does the recreational gigger represent?

[WestEndAngler]

If you have ever walked the flats in West Bay you'll know what they did is good for the sport. I have no problem reducing the bag limit and disallowing gigging during November. 6 years ago I had not caught a flounder in over 5 years, now when I go out I can catch them no problem. When you walk out there and see thousand of juvenile flounder... it puts a smile on my face I don't know about the rest of you but the efforts of MudSkipper, Chester Moore & those who volunteer their time at all the events as well as Sea Center are doing more for the FLOUNDER then any of us sitting here debating a subject.

Get out & do something productive, show some passion in the outdoors and not on the internet!